Card Palms
Hey everyone, can someone tell me how to do a bottom palm? I need it for a trick, and I've searched a bunch but haven't found anything useful. Any help would be great!
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Hey everyone, can someone tell me how to do a bottom palm? I need it for a trick, and I've searched a bunch but haven't found anything useful. Any help would be great!
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Hey. Check out this video; it might help you.
Cheers
Unfortunately, this video is a prime example of why you need to be careful about the sources you use to learn magic on YouTube.
The guy in the video makes almost every common mistake when palming cards.
In Vicente Canuto's Cartomagia Fundamental, you'll find several ways to palm cards from the bottom. One of them, the two-count direct palm, is very simple.
To give an example:
After 9 years, I still consider my palms to be weak, yet they still fly by because I put effort into the magical atmosphere and control the timing between when I relax, talk (misdirection), and execute the palm.
I think it's about knowing how to do the palm at the right and opportune moment, and if you can create that opportune moment yourself, even better.
What was most challenging for me when I started doing palms was overcoming the feeling that I'd been caught (even when I hadn't).
People just wait for you to continue, and you're left thinking, oh...it actually worked.
And it took me a while to gain the confidence to overcome that feeling, which is exactly what can give away that you've done something.
As I always say, when it comes to technique, it's all about practice, practice, and more practice, and adapting it to each person's hands.
But the psychology and how you're able to relax, especially when executing the sleight, is, for me, the most important thing to keep in mind—or at least what has led people to say I'm a magician (because I repeat, I do tricks for family, and every now and then, magic for people I catch off guard on the street or in a bar. I don't claim to be a magician, because it's not my profession).
On the other hand, in my case, I also use Tool, Zenith, and Unhanded, (and some other systems) which allow for genuinely clean "palms" (your hands always empty) and are ready for production (depending on the gimmick) from various places.
And even though they are gimmicks, it's clear they outperform any magician's sleight of hand.
Honestly (and this is just my opinion again), you don't need to be as technically skilled as you do proficient in performance to be a good magician.
Look, I believe some things just aren't debatable. The palm tutorial that was shared isn't any good. It doesn't teach the technique properly. That's purely objective.
It's fine to say magic is an art and art has no rules, but that's subjective. Meanwhile, every art form has objective rules. If you can't write, you learn before you start writing a novel.
And even more so in magic, where the secret is the foundation of everything.
The "it works for me" response is what gets under my skin the most in this art. It's usually the answer to advice, and it makes me lose all desire to help the person who gives it.
Gabi used to say magic can't be hit-or-miss. You can't aim to fool some people and not others. For him, techniques always had to be the best possible, to land with everyone in the audience; otherwise, they weren't worth it. I've been doing this for quite a while, and it took me ages to feel confident performing certain moves, and only after tons of practice. Even then, I still mess up.
Obviously, I'm not talking about getting stuck in analysis paralysis – that's what practicing with friends and fellow magicians is for. But embracing mediocrity doesn't seem like a way to progress in this art.
And I don't care if it's a professional or an amateur. Well, actually, no. If you're charging, put in the work. But if our goal is to emulate the professional magician who does it poorly, then what a pathetic goal.
Beyond that, I've always believed it comes down to satisfying the magician's own ego. We sacrifice good execution, which guarantees the best experience for the spectator, for the satisfaction we get from doing that 'cool' trick. It'd be worth reading what Ascanio says at the end of his torn card routine, where he criticizes those who want to perform the effect without putting in the practice.
Anyway, sure, @maximiliano and I have been pretty critical. But if a Spanish national champion is that critical, maybe we should ask ourselves why.
And seriously, if someone asks a question, gets a bad answer, and an expert tells you it's wrong and you should consult a better source, I don't think the logical response is, "Yeah, just stick with that poor method you saw someone get away with." That way, the expert will have zero desire to contribute next time.
I think you guys are being "a tad" overly critical 😅
I'd suggest being more pragmatic and considering that their "exaggerated way of doing it" actually helps the spectator visualize the move better.
Not everyone, even if they know how to do something, knows how to teach it.
Even if they can explain things, they might get nervous (which I think is what's happening here).
@maximiliano:
Well, funny how that works out... 😊
On one hand, it helps us understand the technique, and on the other, it shows us how not to do it.
Either way, we learn.
@maximiliano:
👍
@link22:
I've seen pro magicians (who get paid to perform) do terrible palms BUT with such incredible misdirection that they've never bothered to improve their palm because they don't need to; you're simply NEVER going to look at their hands when they do it.
In these cases, psychology trumps technique. (And we could go on about this forever.)
On the other hand, if you're one of those who likes to be "open" and show too much, it's clear that mastering a clean palm is essential.
It's a move that, if performed well, can be super clean, or in other words, totally undetectable even when the spectator is looking right at it.
@link22:
Which one are you talking about???? 🤣
Personally (I've read Canuto over 10 times) and I thought I knew everything, and even then, there's always someone who surprises you with something that's been there all along, and you don't notice or appreciate it until someone points it out to you. That happened to me with the analysis of Canuto by Eduardo Coffman and Jovi; I was listening to it these past few days while working, and it sparked new ideas for something I had considered "done and dusted" a long time ago.
(It's another thing whether you like the person explaining it or not, or if they explain it in a way that's too slow for your pace)
@link22:
Seriously, if you want to learn magic and don't own this book... I don't know what world you're living in.
This book is a game-changer for magic (in Spanish); it's like its first "bible" (at least that's how I see it, because that's what it was for me).
Either way, books are great, though a well-explained video helps a lot too.
In my opinion, I don't believe everything out there is a worthwhile learning resource.
To paraphrase my friend @DeZeta, who shared this thought in our Telegram student group:
I'm not saying the person in the video didn't post it with the best intentions, trying to share what they've learned, but we have to be really discerning when learning from others and not just accept the first thing that comes our way.
If you want to learn something right later on, you'll have to "unlearn what you've learned" (long live NLP!), and that's a lot harder than it sounds. That's why it's crucial to be selective about your sources and how you approach learning.
I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more with what you're saying.
The takeaway:
Read the book and supplement it with the videos (that's what I do 😉)
Cheers,
@ricardorg2283:
👍
Here's something to consider: the two of them are really close (especially Jovi) with Vicente Canuto, and they make these videos with his blessing.
So, I don't think you'll find a better (free) supplement, from the author's point of view, Saint Canuto himself.
(Aside from courses based on the book)
@Zeta:
I've seen them on Got Talent Spain, palming cards "right in front of the judges' faces," and the judges don't even notice. In fact, when the camera catches them, you only realize it on the 2nd or 3rd time you watch the video... I also think misdirection is crucial.
Cheers
A lot of unnecessary explanations for things nobody asked about 🙃 (but none explaining what was actually asked 🙄).
A) I never said the video was perfect. Just that there are more polite ways to express things.
B) Simply by sharing a video on palms that you all consider valid, that would solve it, right? :slight_smile:
C) No matter how good you are at what you do, you don't have to be a good teacher (It varies).
Someone asked about bottom palms.
A video was recommended to him.
I pointed out that you should be careful because the person in the video doesn't have the knowledge, practice, or experience to teach it properly. And that will lead to learning it incorrectly, with the problems that brings down the road.
I recommend checking out Cartomagia Fundamental, where he can find what he's looking for.
Even after reading and re-reading my comment, honestly, I don't see what's "uncivil" about it, or being "a bit overly critical."
Honestly, I'm pretty lost.
Good afternoon:
I think you've brought up points that aren't necessarily incompatible with each other. Being critical, in this instance, I believe it's less about strict orthodoxy and more about wanting to help someone learn the right way from the start. And even if it were for orthodoxy, it still boils down to methodological soundness, which, after all, has been refined decade after decade through the hands of the masters.
In my opinion, @ricardorg2283 shared a video that shouldn't be shared because learning the technique that way will hinder your progress. While the user undoubtedly had good intentions, the outcome isn't what we want. In that regard, perhaps at a moderation level, we should implement a 'quality policy' and delete comments like that (or the link itself, editing and explaining why it's being removed). I don't want to burden the moderators with extra work, but perhaps it would be a good idea to compile a collection of links to well-explained techniques. Then, when someone asks about them, they could be redirected to the thread where that technique is detailed. That thread could include both paid and free resources, emphasizing that it's money well spent and that it's good practice to show gratitude by paying for a subscription now and then. Because, let's be honest, when a video is free, it's usually either uploaded by an individual (with a high probability it's not the best possible explanation) or, if it's from a professional or semi-professional without a cost, it's because they're monetizing it through other means, whether it's direct monetization or they have a shop, etc.
And then, I think there's an issue with books: a picture is worth a thousand words, a video is worth a thousand pictures, and a good teacher is worth a thousand videos. I read the explanation of Ases con Amor in Volume II of Ascanio, and it's harder for me to decipher than the Rosetta Stone was for Champollion. Sometimes that creates a huge barrier, especially for us left-handers who constantly have to practice in mirror-mode. And even with Canuto, I run into the same problem with much simpler examples.
Wow 😮 thanks for the heads-up! Seeing Vicente Canuto's name reminded me that there's a YouTube channel with a sort of course that follows that book; they explain the tricks and techniques. I think it's called "learn magic in 7 minutes" (Well, the 7 minutes is just how long the videos generally are; to really learn... you'll have to dedicate several hours, haha)